ReginaldDrax

Good idea, I put that menu together four years ago in about ten minutes (or less) and haven't thought about it since. Looking at the most visited and searched for pages, I was wondering if the structure should look more like this:

• TV Show
  • Season 1
    • Ep1
    • Ep2
  • Season 2
  • Season 3
  • Season 4
  • Timeline
• Characters
  • Dolores
    • Relationships
    • Pictures
  • Maeve
    • Relationships
    • Pictures
• Cast
  • Evan Rachel Wood
  • Thandie Newton
  • etc

Parks

Westworld (park)|1 Westworld

Shōgunworld (park)|2 Shōgunworld

Warworld|3 Warworld

Fantasy World|4 "Fantasy World"

Park five|5 Park five

The Raj (park)|6 The Raj

Other things

(Updated from discussion below)

I'm not sure if I enjoyed Season 3 or not, to be honest. The subtlety and attention to detail that was so much a part of S1 seems not to be the focus at the moment. It's still as good as anything else out there at the moment...

Ah, that's a shame. Hopefully the next season will be better.

That's an improvement, but not sure I would link to the gallery pages, just the character may be fine.

The last stuff still is a little vague. Maybe a top level for the parks instead?

Updated - and that is better.

I read the article by Mira Laime btw and it seems very sensible - the top menu should be aimed at Readers rather than Editors.

I do need to keep the editors engaged though. It's often the nitty-gritty of locations, real world locations, music, weapons, vehicles, props etc that really interest editors. It's this fine detail that gives the wiki it's "authority" and completeness. Even if it's not read as much the editors that create those pages are also the people who comb through episode and character articles making them complete and consistent.

Up to now I've been relying on the Navigation menu to give editors quick access to the Locations articles (for instance). How can I stop those articles stagnating without that direct access?

previous version archived here

• #|Westworld
  • Season One#Episodes|Season One
    • The Original|Ep 1 The Original
    • Chestnut|Ep 2 Chestnut
    • The Stray|Ep 3 The Stray
    • Dissonance Theory|Ep 4 Dissonance Theory
    • Contrapasso|Ep 5 Contrapasso
    • The Adversary|Ep 6 The Adversary
    • Trompe L'Oeil|Ep 7 Trompe L'Oeil
    • Trace Decay|Ep 8 Trace Decay
    • The Well-Tempered Clavier|Ep 9 The Well-Tempered Clavier
    • The Bicameral Mind|Ep 10 The Bicameral Mind
  • Season Two
    • Journey Into Night (episode)|Ep 1 Journey Into Night
    • Reunion|Ep 2 Reunion
    • Virtu e Fortuna|Ep 3 Virtu e Fortuna
    • The Riddle of the Sphinx|Ep 4 The Riddle of the Sphinx
    • 2x05|Ep 5 Akane no Mai
    • Phase Space|Ep 6 Phase Space
    • Les Ecorches|Ep 7 Les Ecorches
    • Kiksuya|Ep 8 Kiksuya
    • Vanishing Point|Ep 9 Vanishing Point
    • The Passenger|Ep 10 The Passenger
  • Season Three
    • Parce Domine|Ep 1 Parce Domine
    • The Winter Line|Ep 2 The Winter Line
    • The Absence of Field|Ep 3 The Absence of Field
    • The Mother of Exiles|Ep 4 The Mother of Exiles
    • Genre|Ep 5 Genre
    • Decoherence|Ep 6 Decoherence
    • Passed Pawn|Ep 7 Passed Pawn
    • Crisis Theory|Ep 8 Crisis Theory
  • Season Four
  • #|Parks
    • Westworld (park)|1 Westworld
    • Shōgunworld (park)|2 Shōgunworld
    • Warworld|3 Warworld
    • Fantasy World|4 "Fantasy World"
    • Park five|5 Park five
    • The Raj (park)|6 The Raj
  • Timeline
  • #category:Cast#|Cast
    • Evan Rachel Wood
    • Thandie Newton
    • Jeffrey Wright
    • James Marsden
    • Sidse Babett Knudsen
    • Angela Sarafyan
    • Jimmi Simpson
    • Shannon Woodward
    • Ed Harris
    • Anthony Hopkins

• • Category:Characters|Characters
    • Dolores Abernathy
    • Maeve Millay
    • Bernard Lowe
    • Teddy Flood
    • Theresa Cullen
    • Clementine Pennyfeather
    • William
    • Elsie Hughes
    • James Delos
    • Robert Ford|Dr. Robert Ford
  • #|1970s Films & TV Series
    • Westworld (film)|Westworld (1970s film)
    • Futureworld|Futureworld (1970s film)
    • Beyond Westworld|Beyond Westworld (1970s TV series)

• #|More
  • Image Galleries|Image Galleries
    • Fan Art
    • SXSW 2018 Images|SXSW 2018, Images
    • SDCC2017 Images|San Diego Comic Con 2017, Images
    • Gallery:Dolores Abernathy|Dolores Abernathy
    • Gallery:Behind the Scenes|Behind the Scenes
    • Gallery:Clementine Pennyfeather|Clementine Pennyfeather
    • Gallery:Maeve Millay|Maeve Millay
    • Gallery:Man in Black|Man in Black
    • Gallery:Robert Ford|Robert Ford
    • Gallery:Teddy Flood|Teddy Flood
  • #category:Locations#|Locations
  • #category:Weapons#|Weapons
  • #|Music
    • Westworld: Season 1 (Music from the HBO® Series)|Season 1
    • Westworld: Season 2 (Music from the HBO® Series)|Season 2
    • Westworld: Season 3 (Music from the HBO® Series)|Season 3
  • Fan Art
  • #|Admin
    • Policies, Guidelines and Parent Filter‎‎
    • Style Guide
  • http://www.westworld.wikia.com/d%7CDiscussions
• #|Yet More
  • #category:Op-Ed Pieces#|Op-Ed Pieces
  • Control Room Staff Training
  • #category:Behind the scenes#|Behind The Scenes
  • Downloads

• Project:Season 3|Season 3 portal

Really it's about using links effectively in the main articles. Which brings me to another topic. There are currently 50 orphaned pages, meaning no articles link toward those articles. This means people won't find these articles unless they specifically search for them. I could talk to the CTM and we can coordinate on clearing that list so ech page is linked to at least once (though the more the better).

Howdy! Hope all is well.

I can clean up those links later on today. I am a little concerned about the splitting off episode summaries that have occured on character pages, and tabview is being used extensively to the point where it will be quite hard to clear the list. Is there a reason each episode for Robert Ford, Man in Black and Dolores Abernathy has been split into its own page? It's going to make updating articles when S4 comes around extremely difficult for the assigned CTM.

In order to clear the list we're going to have to find a page where these links can live — any suggestions?

Hello OA,

Don't "clean" those up yet please, I'll have a look.

Hi TimeShade,

Thank for your message.

> orphaned pages

I think most of those are sub pages; linked to from their main pages using <tabview>. The LonelyPages report doesn't appear to recognise the use of that tag and so shows them as orphaned - but actually they are displayed as part of their main page.

There are some genuinely orphaned pages, Admin for instance, Downloads, and a few others. Mostly these were linked to from the Navigation menu and that's what I was originally asking for advice about. I'll be looking at ways to link to them over the next couple of days.

Errmm - she did kiss Clem, on the lips, not a sisterly kiss.

Just read your Trivia entry - nice catch.

I don't think though, that Woodward's the person who gets to decide whether or not Elsie's LGBQ or not by the way, that decision would be the showrunner's. And you notice that scene was cut, removing Woodward's stated motivation for the kiss so it may be that the Nolans wanted it to be ambiguous.

Shame it was cut, that sounds interesting. And I like her comments about it not mattering what sex Elsie is, we really don't see that enough yet.

Hi,

Those fields need be added into the Infobox/Character template. The data will show up on the pages then. I'll be looking at that template tomorrow.

I *think* all of the "Host Character" boxes have been switched to "Character" - did I miss any?

Hi,

Sorry it took me a while to answer. This is the code to Copy and Paste in source mode for host characters:

{{Infobox/Host Character
| title            = 
| image            = 
| imagecaption     = 
| aka              = 
| ID number        = 
| status           = 
| actor            = 
| seasons          = 
| firstseen        = 
| lastseen         = 
| death            = 
| appearedin       = 
| current lifespan = 
| occupation       = 
| creationdate     = 
| deathdate        = 
| deathcause       = 
| park             = 
| narrative role   = 
| family           = 
| age              = 
| gender           = 
| ethnicity        = 
| hair             = 
| eye              = 
| height           = 
| weight           = 
}}

Some explanations of those fields are at Template:Infobox/Host Character.

You're generally ok to copy code from other articles, and don't worry about making a mess, we've all been there so just shout up and someone will be along to help out. Before long you'll be one of the someones who turn up to help out.

Is that enough info for you at the moment?

Don't hesitate to ask if you need a hand.

yep, thanks a lot, I'll start to convert human infoboxes to the host ones in hosts pages in a moment :)

Nice :)

Have a look at the link in my reply if you can, I put lots of comments in the second copy & paste example to explain the fields.

hey Reg, pls check out my comment under Teddy's page, I need some help in remembering in order to understand which deaths I should track and which not...

one more suggestion for the characters who have host copies of themselves - i think it'd be better to not name the headings "Host %character's name%" but "Host version", so it's an uniform general heading and not unique (like, we do have paragraphs "Personality", but we don't name it "%character's name%'s personality", i hope you know what i mean)

Hi,

I've been discussing this with Fandom staff and they're of the opinion that we'd be best to have a single page that describes both the human and host versions of a character - which means we'll need a single version of Infobox/Character that will cope with both hosts and humans, and with both in the same article.

The headings in a Character article will need to cope with this, as you point out. One way to do it would be a structure like this:

== Biography ==
=== Human Version ===
=== Host Version ===
== Personality ==
=== Human Version ===
=== Host Version ===

Do you see what I mean? What do you think?

wow, sounds crazy but i already like it! HOWEVER, this will probably make their pages more 'spoiler'y... like, imagine a viewer who learns Hale's dead, checks the page quickly to see if it's true and bumps in divisions on human/host versions everywhere... personally, the current state of Hale's page looks great to me, maybe you should consider just elaborating it [the "Host Version" paragraph] instead of dividing every other sections in two parts? that'd be less spoilery... this is what I mean:

Infobox/Character
==Biography==
==Plot== !-- for human version --
==Death== !-- for human version --
==Killed Victims== !-- for human version --
==Personality== !-- for human version --
==Quotes== !-- for human version --
==Appearances== !-- for human version --
!-- and THEN... the host version heading (h2) which includes all original headings in h3! --
==Host Version==
Infobox/Host Character
===Plot=== !-- for host version --
===Death=== !-- for host version --
===Killed Victims=== !-- for host version --
===Personality=== !-- for host version --
===Quotes=== !-- for host version --
===Appearances== !-- for host version --

that would be cool (in my opinion) as well as less spoilery, more compact and would require less changes. that's just as merging two pages in one!

Yes, I like that.

The site is very spoilery anyway tbh. But I like your compromise idea.

Okay, apologies that we didn't fix this formatting issue straight away — it's quite complex and is about to get even more complex.

Originally, the advice was that we should consolidate the information into their main base pages — in some way, this still is the right decision. We're now recommending a U-Turn on this decision, and believe that the best idea is to again consolidate these articles individually; for example Host Hale's article would be better served away from the original at Charlotte Hale/Host (note the /Host is important, and much better than (host)).

As you both mention, there are potential clashes with infoboxes, and having more than one infobox per page is a little distracting and awkward in terms of readability — would a new reader be confused seeing an infobox half the way down the page? Potentially. Infoboxes are aimed to summarise an article and, unfortunately, adapting an infobox for more than one type of character is a difficult feat.

The other aspect is spoilers. We want to make people aware that spoilers are a huge aspect of wiki's, unfortunately (again), they're going to encounter them. We could add a notice at the top of the article (like Williams), but this is very bad for SEO. For example, if you search William Westworld in Google, the summary for the article is quite odd as the template at the top is breaking the result. The only way we can truly ensure we don't spoil for those folks is to separate these articles out again.

It's worth reading this blog to get a better understanding of the underlying issues.

Let me know what you think, apologies again for the U-turn, this is a complex situation.

Hi Luke,

Ok, thanks for the reply and don't worry, I'm not about to have two infoboxes on any page.

I'll finish the modifications to those character pages that are for both humans and hosts.

maybe the warning on William's page is tampering with the SEO because it's just a plain text? I've seen real spoiler alert templates on other wikis (can't remember a single example, damn) and they don't seem to break the result, why don't you create a one (like the ones we do have about asking help with editing stab articles in a dark black style)?

so we're back to separate pages, huh? well, that's even more spoilery since it gives away the info straight in the search string. I'm cool with that, but if the double infobox was the only issue we could've refrained from creating the second one in "Host Version" paragraph...

p.s. i'm OK with anything just give me something to edit :P

Hi Mampac,

Have a look at Charlotte Elizabeth Hale's page. That's the format I'd like to go with. I'm just adding the host specific fields from Template:Infobox/Host Character to Template:Infobox/Character so that we can use a single Infobox for human and host characters.

Spoiler templates (or otherwise) and quote boxes always tamper with SEO.

Hi,

That all sounds interesting.

You want to pick a character and try it out? (your choice, but if you pick teddy you'll be there all night...) I'm not into copying another wiki per se (even TWD), but it does sound interesting.

Drop me a note a when you've done one and we can talk it thru.

check out Arnold Weber, Robert Ford, Theresa Cullen and James Delos.

I hope you like it :)

I like it - Nice one Mampac, thank you.

Antonio, hi.

Thank you for your message and the information.

I'm happy to agree to keep information private when required and to sign an NDA if required. Do you need my email?

Reggie

Not really, I can send the email to the address that you are using in Fandom.

I will send you the email in the next hours ;)

Cheers

Hi GLK,

My mistake, that's an old way of doing things. You can enter the cast details directly into that section of the article.

Reggie

No worries, sorted.

Hi,

Sorry, I have been a tad busy.

Sounds interesting, what do you have in mind?

Hello, I sent you some of the details over on your discord DMs a couple days ago

Sorry, but I don't use discord.

Ah ok. One of our things planned involved creating a Discord separate from the current embedded one so we could have more control.

We would also like to see an increase in engagement and hope achievements can help that. We also would like to see more engagement in discussions and were thinking by disabling the article comments it could help increase engagement in discussions, as the same type of comments occur there.

We also were interested in enabling the gadgets extension which would allow for us to create 4 new skins based on the 4 parks in the series.

Let me know what you think!

Hi,

I'd like to see more engagement as well, it is not easy to keep people involved with such a long gap between seasons though we are seeing new editors working now that the new season is nearly here. I'm pleased to see the content manager and yourself here - that will help will fill the gap.

Discord: Have there been problems with the current Discord channel?

Article Comments: Are article comments being retired? Is there a timeline for this? I like the Discussions but comments there are not associated with a particular page or even an Episode or Season so I'm reluctant to disable Article Comments unless there's a Fandom statement that they're going to be retired. Article comments are one of the ways fans engage with the Wiki, I don't think that should be discouraged.

Gadgets: This sounds good - where can I find out more?

Discord: No problems, but will help with current editing efforts, as for example, several wikis would have wiki-editing/discussion related channels. We could help maintain it for you if you don't actively use discord.

Comments: Aren't retired, and it will be migrated to UCP but the replacement feature hasn't be developed yet. Would be better to promote discussions with the broader/more public space with the app. There are still talk pages but of course isn't a big obstacle if you wish to keep comments.

You can look here for an example of what else gadgets does.

Also we were interested in creating a landing page for the upcoming season. AN example of one would be like this, we would even have a give away involved like Stranger Things had. Would you be fine if I set one up?

The link for the Stranger Things landing page doesn't work, this sounds interesting though. A Season 3 landing page for the mobile version would be good.

Gadgets is based on Javascript - so users will have to have Javascript enabled in their browsers to see the effects? How does this effect mobile browsers and keeping mobile and desktop in step?

Leaving comments enabled won't effect the availability of Discussions, whereas disabling Article Comments would remove a way for users to engage with the material. I'm happy with Article Comments, and unimpressed with Discussions.

Achievements - I was puzzled this was being asked for, since it's always been enabled. I see that it's now not a wiki feature - I'll ask support to turn this back on.

Requiring users to login before editing.

We've had this enabled for a while, in response to some spam comments and edits. What's the current advice on this feature? I don't want to discourage editing.

Great, I'll work on the landing page and get the community manager to enable achievements.

That's fine if you'd like to keep article comments.

For Gadgets, we'll use CSS for the design, but only available on desktops. It won't affect mobile viewers.

As for anonymous editing, it should only be a temporarily measure to defend against anon vandals but shouldn't be always enabled, as a wiki is very large. So could be good to allow anonymous users to edit again for a while and see how that goes.

> So could be good to allow anonymous users to edit again for a while

Done

This is what the landing page would look like: User:TimeShade/sandbox

Could add more characters to the character navigation of course.

Just realized, I only have the CSS is my personal CSS atm, feel free to at it in your personal css or if you have the portable CSS JavaScript enabled with this: User:TimeShade/wikia.css

Looks good (understatement) 👌

It's available here: Project:Season 3.

Do you think we can add link to it on the top navigation and/or main page? Any preference?

And...

Both is better, I'd say.

Great, I've added a link to the main page and the top nav.

I'm trying out the landing page at the top of the main page - what do you think? It's obviously sized to fit in the rh column

There's no width set, so if you move it, it'll fit the column or page.

Hey, I made some adjustments to the landing page, including adding a spotify widget for the soundtrack (as it's a top search item) and including Playsonic's weekly recaps.

Hi TimeShade,

Thanks for letting me know - looks good, the recaps in particular are nicely done.

Could you check the link from the picture of Bernard please? It's not quite right.

The landing page in general looks good.

No problem, fixed the link for Bernard.

Thanks!