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  • hey dude thanks for counting Yakuza's men for me, i started to keep track of deaths only from S3E05 onward and from S1 to S2

    i noticed only now that i added Ronald instead of Roland to her murders list XD

    wanted to ask what are these 2 Serac's operatives killed by her after the servant robot and before Yakuza's men you added? can't remember this tbh

    also wanted to know why did you put Rebohoam in her victims, especially with "caused" note

    as the one who initiated recording of all deaths and killings nad wrote 95% of "Killed Victims" lists, wanted to remind that Caused is when...

    • X deliberately sends others to die in order to do something (if people who were sent to assassinate failed and died in process, they don't count as X's victims)
    • X sends/forces/controls someone to kill Y
    • X kills Y in all other means but directly by their hand (for example, how Dolores killed Gerald by tricking him or how Maeve/Clementine made other hosts fight on their side)

    ...whereas Indirectly Caused refers to...

    • all contributions of X to Y's death that are NOT intentional (The Mortician's death)

    would you explain?

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    • >wanted to ask what are these 2 Serac's operatives killed by her after the servant robot and before Yakuza's men you added? can't remember this tbh

      Sorry, but as I recall: In Serac's mansion, Maeve took control of a maintenance drone and caused 2 of Serac's guards to get shot. In Singapore, Maeve followed Serac to Arnold's house, where Serac shot an identity broker named Jiang. Based on Jiang's information, Maeve found the Mortician and shot one of her guards. And then the Mortician led Maeve to the distillery.

      Could you specify when and where Maeve killed these 2 Serac's operatives?

      >also wanted to know why did you put Rebohoam in her victims, especially with "caused" note

      It's my understanding that Maeve decided to help Dolores' cause in the end. She killed Serac's operatives knowing Caleb would destroy Rehoboam. But if there is a difference of opinion, you should change it back to avoid any confusion.

      By the way, why are these sections titled Killed Victims. Being victims require them to be on the receiving end of a crime. And it's my understanding that most deaths in the series are results of park narratives, self denfense, and combat, not crime.

      I've also kept track of the deaths in the series, but only the actual deaths. Maybe we should compare notes.

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    • ok, i got it about the operatives and Maeve, nice catch, but still think Maeve didn't intend to free Caleb in order to get Rebohoam destroyed -- she did so only after switching her side and i really don't think she had such plans while helping Caleb to break free, so i'll put Indirectly Caused, OK?

      what about the title, that's why beside Direct (this is by defualt so we don't put it every time, only when we're not sure whether the murder was direct or indirect, as with Gerald's wife in Off-Screen cases), Caused and Indirectly Caused we have 

      Suicide, for intentional causing of death

      Physical Body which is used for incapacitations of hosts' body w/o destroying their pearl

      Scripted, which is used for murders that had been caused by a code (look at Dolores' victims), and 

      Via X or Controlled by Y for special cases like Ford's intrusions into Bernard Lowe

      Mistakenly, as in Emily's case

      about crimes -- even if that is a script, even that if it's not a full destroying of host's pearl, that still counts as a murder. Arnold made Dolores kill him, and he still counts as her victim, doesn't he? that's just a fact that Dolores killed Arnold. if you don't like the word "victims", then choose something different that suits more and we'll rename the sections

      P.S. and btw, that Yakuza members Maeve killed before distillery were direct -- she aimed their guns and "pressed" them remotely, she couldn't make them pull the trigger since she's not a mind-controller, so i'm about to remove the Caused on that case

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    • Sorry, I still don't see how most of the deaths in the series would constitute as murder. Besides, it's a science fiction, not a crime fiction. The legality of the characters' actions were not really the point.
      > then choose something different that suits more and we'll rename the sections.
      Related Casualties - more neutral than victims

      Maybe we shouls add the locations of which the deaths occurred.
      Also, here's some differences between the list you compiled and mine.

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    • "Casualties" sounds more formal and more of a loss for someone to me... also can't see why the title needs to be more neutral - i know the lists include not only direct kills, right? well if you really wanna change them so bad, you can, i just didn't want you to go to every single character's page who has ever committed a murder to merely change the heading since that's a buncha work which is not necessary.

      the same is about the locations. i rewatched the first two series in order to record the deaths and really don't wanna do this again, IMO there's no point in adding the places where the victims were killed, it's just a waste of time (just look at Man in Black's victims) and will make the reading of the list more tedious. the whole point of these lists is to make us able in the very end to compile a top of characters who participated in the most deaths, like a killcount -- we'll add it to the "Trivia" sections, and you may be the one who can help me to complete it. (at the moment Man in Black is given the 1st place for killing the hosts but it's actually Clementine Pennyfeather, we should sort them by human and host victims and so on but let's talk about this later after we complete all deaths in S3)

      your list looks very detailed and more thorough than mine, so you're welcome to edit any of them -- together we'll make them perfect. you have buncha minor characters who i wasn't even aware of because i only looked at the synopses in episodes' articles and they weren't mentioned in them.

      if you see that i noted N QA killed by Dolores but there's a minor character as Arroyo -- subtract 1 from N and add Arroyo above/below according to the chronoligcal order. remember that if more QA (or the same kind of people) are getting killed by a character later, they still add up to that one note/bullet about QA if they're also direct. our numbers don't have to always match exactly, so it's fine that we'll have an approximation at the end.

      and pls don't merge multiple persons in one bullet - don't by thrifty or shy, just separate them in more bullets, like, not 

      • Alexei Ivanov, Leonid Sokolov, 15 Crimean civilians (Caused)

      but

      • Alexei Ivanov (Caused)
      • Leonid Sokolov (Caused)
      • 15 unnamed Crimean civilians (Caused)

      pls notify me when you're done fixing any discrepancies between our lists so we can compile a top-10 killers to present to our lovely admin, i'll surely help you too, XOXO

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    • Actual Deaths (Directly Alone)

      Actual Deaths (Directly & Caused in Combination)

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    • damn, you're just killing it XD my jaw just dropped, so many kills i omitted... however i still got a few things to say

      hang up a minute

      but what about the list -- we should sort it by hosts, humans and host&humans&everyotherbeing, and provide direct and indirect for each of them

      Rebohoam doesn't count as he's not actually a character so for example

      humans

      1. %charactername% - X (Y directly)

      2...

      hosts

      1. %charactername% - X (Y directly)

      combined

      1. %charactername% - X (Y directly, A hosts, B humans)

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    • what about "things to say" -- pls slow up and...

      • merge and add up all kills of the same type unless they differ by direct/indirect things, i know it breaks the chronological order, right? but it allows you to know right away how many ppl of that kind were killed by that character (on Hector Escaton's page, for example; btw where tf are ppl from Mesa Gold Bar at? i'm rolling them back)
      • we don't know whether Phil killed himself, maybe he broke free?
      • pls don't multiply the number of formats we use in parentheses (there's already too many of them) -- with Charlotte Hale in Dolores' list, just use as Charlotte Hale and not disguised as... to not confuse the readers (unless you wanted to separate Dolores Prime's and Dolores' copy kills with that? then it's ok)
      • dude, we can't attribute all victims of Host Uprising to Dolores, so it's ridiculous that you put Limpert, Coughlin, Engels and Goldberg... 
      • pls use the full form of abbreviations at first time to not confuse (PMC who?)
      • don't forget to put "unnamed" for extras like QA and soldiers - if they're named then they're chars of full value and need to have a separate page
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    • >btw where tf are ppl from Mesa Gold Bar at? i'm rolling them back)

      It's unclear that everyone at the Mesa Gold were killed by Hector.

      >dude, we can't attribute all victims of Host Uprising to Dolores, so it's ridiculous that you put Limpert, Coughlin, Engels and Goldberg... 

      Limpert, Coughlin, Engels and Goldberg were killed by members of Wyatt's gang while under Dolores' orders to attack the Mesa

      >pls use the full form of abbreviations at first time to not confuse (PMC who?)

      Sorry, by PMC, I meant private military contractors.  You can change them into mecenaries if you want.

      >Rebohoam doesn't count as he's not actually a character so for example

      Why isn't Rehoboam a character?

      The list:

      Aside from the hosts Serac killed, there're only three named host characters actually died - Dolores, Hector and Maurice, just take their death off the list.

      As for deaths of host bodies, I haven't figured out how I should count it, since there're probably hundreds of thousands of off-screen host deaths during thirty years that the parks were operational. Teddy's just one host, and he died 5746 times in park narratives. And there were six parks with thousands of hosts. The total number of host deaths in the parks would just make Delos leadership and management occupy the top 10 list.

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    • ok dude, lemme clean up all what you did and we'll start adding the kill count placements to the trivia sections (I'll drop you a note when I'm done)

      what about Hector — he was sitting there alone, it's clear that he was the one who killed that people (he also was injured by them/QA), however you may leave a Possibly next to the Off-Screen if you want (we'll count possible murders out of the list with only direct killings)

      what about off-screen physical body deaths — Delos leadership is not a character. you're right again, Rebohoam is a character. I'll create a list with all variations according to our notes and will show it to you later after we discuss everything you added — for example, how Dolores caused Rebohoam's death? I know it was her goal, right? but only Caleb and Maeve were responsible for that

      also, there are more host destroying in the show — Angela and Brigham, for example (I know we're not sure their pearls didn't survive the explosions but that doesn't matter since they'll be never recovered so we presume)

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    • >Hector

      In almost every scene in the Mesa, there were dead bodies in the background. And some of the bodies at Mesa Gold seemed to be hosts wearing Western costumes. They or some other random hosts could have killed everyone at Mesa Gold before Hector arrived.

      >Delos leadership is not a character. It's a group of at least 10 characters (William, Charlotte Hale, Brompton, Elliot, Joanna, Reed Phillips and 4 other unnamed Delos Board members)

      >how Dolores caused Rebohoam's death?

      People can be awarded, promoted or credited posthumously. No reason kill count shouldn't be the same.

      >also, there are more host destroying in the show

      It's my understanding that every host who's not outside the parks were destroyed. Even if Angela and Brigham's pearls survived the explosions, their pearls would have been found eventually (using either the Security Panel's host tracking system or the Host mesh network). And their recovered pearls would have been destroyed along with all the other hosts.

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    • There's something I noticed on Marti's page:

      >Marti is the second and one of the 3 LGBT characters to be introduced in the show, alongside Clementine Pennyfeather and Destin.

      There's also Logan and possibly Elsie. Not sure about Clementine though. I always assumed that by design, all hosts are pansexuel and indifferent to physical appearances, in order to cater to a variety of guests.

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    • i didn't mean post-mortem killings, i asked how was Dolores related to Rebohoam's deletion? she was lying dead on the floor, that was Maeve's and Caleb's deed, neither did she ask or order someone to delete it btw, why did you put Liam Dempsey Jr. to her victims? could you explain?

      ok you convinced me, we'll put Possibly, Caused or Direct to Hector's Mesa Gold Bar's victims

      again, LAPD who?

      again, we can't put "Delos leadership" in the top list

      what about LGBT characters -- yes, I was the one who created the category and added those notes to the trivia sections. unfortunately, Elsie's not a member of LGBT community -- in her interview with a site/journalist Shannon Woodward commented on Clementine scene that that kiss was more of curiosity and says nothing about her sexuality (at least that's how i understood her words) -- i'll add this with a reference to her Trivia section soon, check this out here: https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/westworld-season-2-shannon-woodward-elsie-interview btw, why did you put "Hundreds of unnamed hosts outside the Forge" in her victims list? did i missed something about her? lol

      about Logan, you proly mean the scene in "Chestnut", i can't actually recall it correctly... if he's just having sex in a foursome that doesn't always mean he's bisexual unless he touches (performs anal/oral sex with) that man directly. let's rewatch that scene again and draw a conclusion whether he's straight

      it hurts me that you remove my victims on Bernard's list -- that 2 meat plant workers in S3E1... he surely suffocated one of them to death, the other could've been just knocked out, but he's proly dead since Bernard's "beast mode" wouldn't leave alive witnesses since he was a wanted criminal at that moment

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    • Sorry about the meat plant workers. Joe seemed to still be breathing while lying on the floor, and Bernard didn't choke out Liang for that long.

      >Logan

      In Chestnut, at the monorail station, Logan took two hosts to accompany him, one male, one female. In Reunion, before Logan met Akecheta and Angela, he was hitting on a man.

      >LAPD

      Sorry, by LAPD, I meant Los Angeles Police Department.

      >Rehoboam and Dempsey

      It's my understanding that they were killed by members of Dolores' group, which Dolores was the group's leader.

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    • let's prescribe Caused only to direct orders but not to team killings -- the direct orders were intentionally caused, what about killings of her team -- lets separate them by Indirectly Caused, since she didn't order to kill them in person (if you have put more QA Caused to her list, pls subtract all QA not killed by her and leave only the ones she ordered to kill or whose death she caused, as far as i know these were the only 33 QA she ordered Angela to blow up, put the others in another bullet with Indirectly Caused note, you can look up my old version before your edits to figure out how many she killed exactly by her hand or her orders, I'll do this with PMCs rn)

      you're right about meat plant workers -- i deleted them from his list. btw, how are you getting their names? omg i'm shook

      about Logan -- that conversation with that Asian in "Reunion" was definitely gay. now i adore this character even more, omg! i still can't understand how come i didn't notice that as a gay since it takes one to know one lol... moreover, i doubt that in a foursome a straight man would let another man stroke his body, i'm gonna add him to that category rn

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    • >direct orders

      What would you qualify as a direct order?

      >how are you getting their names?

      I went through the series' entire casting on Westworld's IMDb page. But even now there're still several character names I couldn't place.

      >btw, why did you put "Hundreds of unnamed hosts outside the Forge" in her victims list? did i missed something about her?

      Right before Elsie was killed by Hale, she admited to Bernard that she helped Hale with the massacre.

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    • yeah, i added those hosts both to Hale's and Elsie's lists, thanks (the number is a very rough estimate, ikr)

      a direct order is when someone orders the other one to kill specifically a person they want to be dead, that is to say, that was their intention laid in their order. for example, if i order you to kill X and you kill them, that is Caused. if in the process of killing X you also killed A, B and C -- their death was Indirectly Caused, 'cause i didn't ask you to kill A, B and C -- only X. i think this format will be clearer for the readers

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    • so the last deaths I didn't record are Maeve's murders in Warworld -- i counted only the ones in "Decoherence" in that pile of corpses, but there were more in previous episodes where she hadn't still realized she's in a simulation, could you count them as well and increment her Warworld soldiers number?

      after this we can finally wrap up the records! i'll create the top-10 myself and'll send it to you to double-check and we can start adding info about killcounts in Trivia sections

      meanwhile, after you get done with my request, could you help me adding "Death" paragraphs in deceased humans' articles (only completely destroyed hosts have this heading as well)? there are very few left. pls look up the popular pages to conform the format -- you put Killed By (Destroyed By in host's case), then bullets listing all people responsible for the death which are followed by explanations including the manner of death and the motives, TY in advance :*

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    • https://westworld.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mampac/Top-10_killers_in_the_show yo you're welcome to check this out! <3 (but pls don't bitch on me for putting Dolores on the first place -- i think the deaths she caused all over the world outweigh the ones Serac and Rehoboam caused)

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    • hey, how are you doing?

      would like to invite you to watch (or rewatch) the original Westworld (film) to count its characters' victims and deaths too. i'm planning to do this today in the evening, you can do this whenever you want, after i add the victims you're welcome to clean them up

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    • A FANDOM user
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